October 27, 2007
Switzerland Strips Citizens of Gun Rights.
Despite the vehement protests from many of Switzerland’s cantons (states), the lower chamber of the nation’s Federal Assembly voted to strip its citizens of gun rights, not by registering or confiscating firearms, but by outlawing the storing of ammunition in the homes of the citizens.
According to The Liberty Zone, the move was led by Switzerland’s small but vocal–and powerful–Socialist minority. And apparently it was a leading women’s magazine who aided the Socialists in the cause.
Having failed at attempts to take the guns themselves from homes and store them in government facilities, the new law takes aim at ammo rather than the guns. The Swiss are still allowed to possess firearms; they simply will not be allowed to possess the ammunition to use them.
This is the backdoor method of disarming citizens, and it is very effective.
The ban also applies to the male citizens who make up Switzerland’s time-honored citizens’ militia. Even they will be required to keep their ammo at approved government facilities.
The fact that a Leftist minority group was able to convince a majority of representatives in the Swiss Federal Assembly to approve the measure is considered a major victory for Socialism and the push to strip individual citizens of the right to keep and bear arms.
In a stunning example of what Leftists can do when citizens are not paying attention, the Socialist ban on ammunition in the homes of the Swiss people should be a stark lesson for U.S. citizens who wish to preserve the right to keep and bear arms. Anti-gun groups do not have to register or confiscate firearms to win the battle.
Rather, the growing modus operandi of the gun control movement is to render a Constitutional right null, void, and useless by implementing legislation aimed at things such as ammunition rather than the actual guns themselves.
Within the U.S. the anti-gun movement does not even have to introduce legislation. A mere executive order by an Administration in the 1990s has been all it takes for a massive assault to ensue on gun shops, gun manufacturers, and other facets of the gun industry, to begin to gradually rob the citizens of their rights to keep and bear arms. This is presently being accomplished by a rogue arm of the Department of Justice–the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives–which has succeeded in shutting down 80% of the gun stores, and gun and ammo manufacturers, within the U.S.
The prevailing wisdom, similar to what we find in Switzerland, is to attack gun ownership by focusing on various facets of the gun and ammo industry rather than to directly attack the citizens’ guns. This effectively renders useless any supposed right to own, possess, and use a firearm without addressing the firearms themselves at all–a perfect example of disarming the citizens using the backdoor method.
Switzerland has been the last bastion of real gun rights in Europe. Now even the Swiss have fallen to the sly and seductive ways of the Socialist anti-gun movement.
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Comments from around the web:
Swiss Army Gun Victims Push Referendum, Even After Bullet Vote
By Antonio Ligi
Sept. 28 (Bloomberg) — Tanja Vollenweider and her family had just built a house near Zurich when her husband lost his job at an insurance company. Two weeks later, the militia officer took his army-issued pistol into the forest and killed himself.
“It was Friday, we had had guests at home,” Vollenweider, 35, said at her home in Daellikon. “My daughter saw him leaving with the weapon. She woke me up. We heard the shots.”
Four and a half years later, Vollenweider and other gun control advocates yesterday won a victory when the lower house of parliament voted to bar Switzerland’s citizen soldiers from keeping ammunition at home. Their next goal is a national referendum on stricter gun laws.
The husband of former alpine skier Corinne Rey-Bellet killed the winner of five World Cup races with his army weapon last year, fueling demands for tighter gun control. Much of the debate has focused on military weapons because Switzerland’s militia- based army requires soldiers to keep their guns at home.
While lawmakers yesterday voted to rescind a World War II- era law that forced soldiers to keep 50 rounds of ammunition at home, they rejected a proposal to have militia members turn in their weapons.
“The militia concept and personal responsibility are among the foundations of our country,” Defense Minister Samuel Schmid said. “If a state considers it necessary to take responsibility away from its citizens and doesn’t trust them to handle a personal gun responsibly, it ultimately weakens itself.”
In addition to military weapons, Switzerland has the fourth- highest rate of civilian gun ownership after the U.S., Yemen and Finland, according to the Small Arms Survey, a Geneva-based research project sponsored by countries including the U.K., Canada and Switzerland.
`About the Victims’
Switzerland recorded an average of 1,428 suicides every year from 1969 to 2000, according to government statistics. Some 343 of those, or 24 percent, involved guns.
Martin Killias, a criminology professor at the University of Zurich, estimates that about 260 people kill themselves using army weapons each year, and another 20 are murdered.
While the Swiss homicide rate is relatively low, at 12 per 1 million inhabitants compared with 56 in the U.S., the number of killings by family members is high, Killias said. Domestic violence deaths amount to 5.5 per million versus 7.9 in the U.S. and 4.3 in the Netherlands, according to Killias’s study.
“It’s about the victims,” Chantal Gallade, 34, a Social Democratic lawmaker whose father killed himself with an army gun, said in the capital, Bern. “There are too many, and every killing that you can avoid is worth it.”
William Tell
Pro Tell, a gun supporters’ organization, says there is no direct link between killings and army guns. Pro Tell is named after William Tell, the legendary Swiss hero who is said to have shot an apple off his son’s head after being arrested by an Austrian governor.
“Whoever snaps would do it anyway,” said Jack Balmer, 34, a postal worker and corporal in the militia. “They will use a hammer if they can’t use their rifle.”
Switzerland’s gun laws are partly the result of a militia tradition, dating back to the 17th century, which created a “myth that only a rifleman is a citizen,” said Rudolf Jaun, a professor of military history at the ETH Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich.
Even today, the army consists mostly of militia. Most men undergo military training when they are about 20, after which they serve in the militia. When their service has ended, militiamen may buy their personal weapons.
Rouven Howald, a financial controller, has no plans to keep his rifle.
“I am personally all in favor of having weapons at the army barracks,” said Howald, 34. “I just have one at home because I am required to do so.”
Fight Continues
Aaron Karp, co-author of the 2007 Small Arms Survey and a professor of political science at Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia, said he didn’t know of any other country that “routinely” lets soldiers take guns and ammunition home.
Switzerland introduced its first unified gun ownership law in 1999. It has since agreed to tighten the rules as part of an accord with its European neighbors to do away with border controls. The changes, which have yet to take effect, will require all gun buyers to have permits and impose penalties on illegal gun ownership for the first time.
Tanja Vollenweider says she will continue to fight for rules that require military weapons to be stored at army barracks, and oblige all other weapons to be registered.
Such rules may have saved her husband’s life, said Vollenweider, who found out at the funeral that he was about to be offered another job.
“If that night the weapon wasn’t around, he would have had to find one,” she said. “But three days later the situation would have been different. Three days later he would have had another job offer.”
To contact the reporter on this story: Antonio Ligi in Zurich at aligi@bloomberg.net
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Gun Control Coming to Switzerland?
The usual suspects, liberals, greens, et al, are planning a major offensive to disarm the country. From SwissInfo:
Attitudes towards firearms may be changing in Switzerland, which is well known for its militia army, strong traditions and liberal gun laws. A recent survey found that two out of three Swiss want to ban army weapons from private households.
Centre-left political parties and pacifist groups are hoping to build on these signs of public disapproval to force a nationwide vote. They are due to start collecting signatures for a people’s initiative from August this year.
The initiative is calling for army weapons to remain in the barracks, a national gun register, a ban on private individuals buying or owning particularly dangerous guns such as automatic weapons or pump-action shotguns, and tighter controls on those who say they need to carry a firearm.
Green parliamentarian Jo Lang, who is behind the proposal, argues that keeping an army gun at home is “a major security risk” and that “there are no practical arguments – only ideological ones”.
Gee, I can’t think of any “practical argument” either. Oh, wait! That’s right, Switzerland was the only country that Germany didn’t invade. . . I’m sure it wasn’t because in those days every home in the country was armed with a gun and someone who knew how to use it.
Notice that even your everyday pump-gun would be banned.
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4 Responses to “Gun Control Coming to Switzerland?”
34 Comments »
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This story is riddled with error, and I think intentionally so… http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=22801 …you kind of misrepresentation of the facts does not help our cause at all. –SM
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The article has one flaw; “Rather, the growing modus operandi of the gun control movement is to render a Constitutional right null, void, and useless by implementing legislation aimed at things such as ammunition rather than the actual guns themselves.”
The flaw is in lack of understanding the intention of the founders. The Constitution does not grant the right to keep and bear arms to anyone; either in government, or in general principle to individual ownership.
What the Constitution did provide for, if you read the preamble to the text of the Bill of Rights, was to restrict and prohibit government from infringing upon the right to keep and bear arms; all rights come from our creator God. Our founders understood this principle and wrote volumes about the knowledge, and understanding of it.
Not until men of all ages understand and acquiesce to the leadership of a righteous God can we enjoy those rights in their fullness as God intended them to be enjoyed.
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The historical record of gun control shows: The government that required a disarmed citizenry, eventually begins to enslave and slaughter their helpless subjects.
Now is the last chance the Swiss will ever have to preserve their freedom and their safety.
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Hey, didn’t the US Founding Fathers own slaves? You know, the guys who wrote the Second Amendment.
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Right! And observant as you are, you will notice that they didn’t have any cars, computers or the Internet. You know, as in “different times”?
They INHERITED a world not of their own making, but they laid the foundation that allowed future generations to get rid of slavery!
England BANNED slavery in 1825 and sent their fleet to HUNT DOWN slaver ships and just about 40 years later, the US finally banned slavery as well.
In case you don’t really get the monumental change this represented, here’s a little reminder: it was the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY that slavery was legally abolished!
No other civilization had ever done so, although slavery was common in almost every civilization and every period of history before. And it is STILL practiced in most African and Muslim countries. All the slaves the Europeans got from Africa were sold to them by Arab and Black slavers, because the Europeans only visited the coastal regions of Africa.
Regarding the founders, they were debating the slavery issue extensively. None of them were comfortable with the situation, but they were in a very difficult situation and they had to get all the new States to agree to the new constitution.
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“This story is riddled with error, and I think intentionally so… http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=22801 …you kind of misrepresentation of the facts does not help our cause at all. –SM”
This is what I call a “drive-by” post. Fire off a couple of rounds, show no evidence to support the claim and then provide a link to a chat board for documentation – that requires one to be a member in order to have the privilege of response. (Probably a gimmick to increase eye-balls.)
Mr. SM’s assumption that there was an intentional miss-leading by the author is utterly absurd. I collect data from multiple sources, including RSS feeds and also Google News alerts. I felt comfortable with this story because my wife is Swiss and we spend about 30 days per year in Switzerland and I know this to be a sensitive issue for the Swiss.
Mr. SM’s premise that it is only military ammo, misses some core issues. First, the fact that it is only military ammo fails to clarify that almost every man of age, in Switzerland, has a military weapon – kept at home. To make it sound like this is no big deal shows a certain lack of understanding of the gravity of this situation by Mr. SM. Because some very high profile murder suicides have happened with these weapons in the hands of bad actors, a very liberal elements, now in power, are seeking even broader restrictions on guns. Taking ammo from military arms, is merely the first step. Don’t trust me, research the situation yourselves.
“Also hotly debated is a people’s initiative launched the same month by the centre-left Social Democratic Party and pacifist organisations to go a step further and ban the estimated one-and-a-half million guns and rifles kept at home.” source: swissinfo.ch
On “Castboolits” one can find Mr. SM’s expanded comments:
You know what I hate more than the hysterical lies about gun ownership from the liberal media? It’s the hysterical lies perpetrated by the idiots on our side. From the above referenced “article”:
Quote:
Despite the vehement protests from many of Switzerland’s cantons (states), the lower chamber of the nation’s Federal Assembly voted to strip its citizens of gun rights, not by registering or confiscating firearms, but by outlawing the storing of ammunition in the homes of the citizens.
Citizens have NOT been prohibited from storing ammunition. What the new law does is prohibit soldiers from storing army-issue ammo at home, a policy, which I point out, has been SOP of the US Armed forces for quite some time. About the Swiss gun control debate:http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/front/de…82039000&ty=st
Quote:
In September, parliament banned the long-standing tradition of allowing all enlisted men to keep their ammunition at home.
And…http://www.pr-inside.com/apparent-ra…ss-r321305.htm
Quote:
While parliament recently approved a bill requiring ammunition to be stored in armories, reservists can still keep their army-issued assault rifle at home and bullets are readily available from weapons stores.
I wish the extremists on our side would at least take the time to get it right. To blow the story as badly as they have in the originally referenced article is to make our side every bit as incredible as the liberal MSM.Fastmetal
This is a comment that I found on the http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/500103904/m/6701052662
Post:
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Picture of SwissmanPosted 08 December 2007 11:01 AM
Dear members,It is true that the lefties dance in the blood of the sixteen old victim for taking away the Swiss-army assault rifle from
the soldier. If this chess-move works, the swiss shootingsociety is dead, because most of the shootingranges are made for army-use.
BUT, if they want to change the system with the guns, the government must change the whole army-laws and strategy. It’s a bit
much for 6 cases with army guns in seven years. I guess it will be a hard fight but we will win.The other and in my eyes bigger problem is:
Ca. one month before this criminal kills ther girl in Zurich, some female- and antigun-groups start a petition for much harder gun-laws. So this organisations got very much wind in their sails right now.
Like i wrote some times before: We got our share of lefties, treehuggers and politicians who wants to get profile with the
tragedy of other peoples. And they forgot to say that the last three killers are: one guy from Irak, one Moslem, and one guy from Chile. The guy from Irak got many problems with the police before, the guy from Chile got three penaltys and was in jail. So the Swiss-Army has to check out the history of the recruits more precisely.Swissman”
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Remember, the first law passed by Comrade Lenin and his fellow monsters was to ban private ownership of guns. Millions of Russians, not just the aristocracy, owned guns under the rule of the czars. When the Chekka came to a village to check for guns after the set date for the ban they would immediately kill anyone who had even a shotgun shell on their property.
With the Russian population disarmed and helpless the Bolshevik monsters were free to carry out the greatest mass murder the world had ever seen up to then.
The same scum are attempting to disarm all white people everywhere. Switzerland was one of the last bastions in Europe for a free, armed citizenry. Former free Australian and British citizens are now banned from owning guns and only the police, military and criminals are armed.
It is interesting how there was usually a massacre by a disturbed individual before the political prostitutes introduced the ban. Dunblane in the UK and Port Arthur in Australia. A few more convenient rampages in the US and
Schumer, Feinstein and co will push for the repeal of the Second Amendment.
I hope the Swiss fight this. Name the leftist scum who are pushing to disarm the citizens and make them face the public. It is time to take to the streets. -
As far as I know, the Swiss never had a constitutional right to own guns. As such, this legislation is not only excellent public policy, but has no effect on constitutional rights in Switzerland. No civilized society should allow individual citizens to own guns, and Britain and Switzerland have done the right thing.
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re: Jeff Goldman’s post:
This post speaks volumes of those that feel western culture has become so highly evolved that the notion of protecting ones self is now prosaic.
“No civilized society should allow individuals to own guns.” Really? And what exactly do you plan to do when an “uncivilized” member of your community decides to rape your wife and daughter? Dial 911 (Or Dial-a-prayer)? You live in a Darwinian fantasy world.
Fastmetal
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I’ll bet Mr Goldman has no problem with Israeli citizens having guns in their homes. One set of rules for us and another for you, eh Mr Goldman? I notice you ignore what happened in Russia when the individual citizens weren’t allowed to own guns. Why is that?
As a matter of fact civilized societies have no problem with their free, law-abiding citizens having guns. Free, armed men take responsibility for protecting their families and societies. However if the man isn’t present the gun is the great equaliser. A 6′, 250lb savage intent on the rape of a 5′, 90lb woman will think twice if she has a gun pointed at him.
The mentality which requires that personal responsibility for security be handed over to the government produces the type of slave mind that is acceptable to Goldman and his ilk. -
The BATF did not shut down 80% of american gun shops. The 80% less FFLs were not gun shops but people who had licenses but did not comply with all local and state laws as well as federal law. When asked to prove that they were in compliance with these laws over 90% willing gave up their FFLs! Less than two or three percent were denied renewal. George Bush has been harder on gun shops with extensive audits and shutting down gun shops that Bill Clinton was, and even though it is blamed on 911 it did not start until 2004.
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It’s nice to see half-wits like Mssr. Heit proved wrong. What else could he be wrong about, I wonder.
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Shooting is a hobby that relaxes me; here is a quote that I like.
“A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.” – Sigmund Freud
The fact of the matter is that gun bans do not work. Period. It only emboldens criminals that obtain guns illegally smuggled from nations who broke the very treaty they signed to keep international gun trades at bay. A citizen without a weapon makes for a very happy criminal. That criminal can rob and rape without the worry of being shot or stabbed in the process. However, a lady yielding a .40 caliber Glock tends to make a potential rapist back off. The very presences of a firearm in some cases are enough to actually prevent a crime from happening. Would a robber be more afraid of a homeowner with a 12-gauge shotgun full of buckshot or more afraid of a homeowner holding a telephone dialing 911? On average it takes about 15 minutes or longer for a police officer to arrive at a home after an emergency call.45 minutes where I live That’s enough time for the criminal to have raped, robbed, and killed the person inside. However, if the person inside fires off a couple dozen rounds of 9mm shells, the criminal is guaranteed to be either full of holes or far away scared and hiding. Don’t tell me that gun bans are good in making crime decrease because that’s the biggest lie ever told. Do you want to be able to protect yourself or your family in your own home, on your own private property? I suggest being very wary of whom you choose to put in power in?” fear the government that fears the armed citizen”, besides look at the statistics on gun ownership in Switzerland, where every household is required to have a firearm of some kind in the house as well as someone who knows how it operate it safely and responsibly -
This is a very well written piece. And it disturbs me that much more that women played a key role in this law being passed, when the women of their nation, much like ours, could actually play a definitive role to the contrary. Women, learn how to safely use a firearm in self-defense and learn the U.S. Constitution, PLEASE. To see more on this topic: http://wwww.womenofcaliber.wordpress.com
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NUT’S on Guncontrol.
Relies more Cons. & and we will need more Guns.
I was Belgium ,When the Germans where tolde NUTS -
We in South Africa have just gone through a similar attempt at ridding legal responsible gun owners of their arms by means of a very difficult process of renewals of our previously legally registered arms. Only ONE self defense weapon is now allowed with a max of 200 rounds on your premises per calibre of weapon. A total of 4 weapons are allowed unless you are a dedicated hunter, collector, private security force and have gone through an expensie and long proficiency process for both hand and long guns. No matter how you look at it, our new gun laws, however saintly and well intentioned are a step on the road of the socialist government here trying to prevent us from defending/arming ourselves.
I won’t bore you with too much detail, but we have an extremely violent society, who use AK’s, stolen weapons (largely from police and army stores or stations), and smuggled weapons from over our borders. We are under attack and our police and courts are innefectual and corrupt. Criminals have no fear of being caught and if by some miracle they are, have no fear of being hung, drawn and quartered as the Death Penalty was scrapped some years ago.
When a politician has a birthday ,or is elected, he frees hundreds of so called petty criminals from our overcrowded jails (no doubt to thank them for voting…yes criminals here have not had their voting rights removed), and often hardened criminals, murderers, rapists are released by accident!
I for one will do whatever it takes to remain armed, legally, and give my family and I at least a fighting chance.
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Jeff Goldman.. “No civilized society should allow individual citizens to own guns”? Really!? You must be out of your mind. Use your fricken head to read factual statistics and logical presentations of thought (not just emotionally-charged, carefully chosen exceptions to the norm) and think carefully through these issues instead of just devouring the over-simplified and illogical BS that continuously streams your way from the Socialists.
To those of you who agree with me but condemn me for writing an inflammatory, emotional reply devoid of facts and substance…I apologize. Just had to tell (Goldman) what I thought of him.
(Edited for profanity….moderator)
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Now, now, boys. please stop picking on mr goldman, or at least go a little easier. he is the product of his up-bringing. People of jewish descent in America tend to be college educated (Re-Educated) to be mega-liberal. Having been raised, for probably hundreds of years, to be subservient to more aggressive types. It is just their way. It wasn’t until the U.S. created the state of Isreal and left them there to “Man Up” and fight for their survival as a country that any jews have bothered to learn to defend themselves. You can’t sue arab bombers after the fact. 🙂
Mr. Goldman may actually learn to open his eyes and look around America, not just New York City, and see what is actually going on. That is, if he can turn off the liberal media’s brainwashing box and think for himself. His type will just get offended at your words and resist any path that they may lead him. We should rather, offer to teach him and show him the truth. Invite him to the shooting range for an afternoon of shooting and grilling burgers. Maybe he might then feel comfortable enough to travel the U.S. and see the real America, not just the liberally controlled cities.
I’d be happy to take any non-shooter to the range and teach them to shoot safely and have fun all the while. I’ve never taken anyone to the range and not have them enjoy themselves. They usually become shooters after a few trips to the range. Most have come to realize that it’s not the guns that are the problem, but the criminals that the liberals keep letting out of jail (if they even get jail time) to commit more crimes.
BTW, all shooters reading this. The time has come to buy ammunition and firearms and hide them well. I have taken the course of buying enough weapons and ammunition to arm several of my neighbors if the need should arise. I’ve also taken them out to the range for a day of firearms training and fun shooting. If we all buy six or seven rifles and a couple cases of ammunition there will be enough equipment to arm every honest American citizen for the common defense.
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[…] read this and get ideas. Sure beats having to register all those evil things or take them away. Switzerland Strips Citizens of Gun Rights. Concealed and this one The Swiss and their Guns The menatility of the swiss has been and continued to be […]
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Jeff Goldman, an armed society is a polite society. History proves that without a doubt.
This is just another move by the socialists to disarm the law-abiding citizens so that they can do with them whatever they want.
And face one thing: if I want to kill someone, I won’t need a gun. I will kill with a knife, an axe, a baseball bat, anything. If I want to kill I will kill.
Banning guns will only make sure that the criminals have guns. Don’t count on the police to help you. The police in Germany and Austria is already suggesting the following “defense” in case of a criminal act against you:
1) run away
2) cooperateNice, no? Don’t defend yourself anymore, just give in, be a subject, be a peasant, be a… Euro-peon and let the EUSSR with their Eurocrats and Eurocracy steamroll you.
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Hi everyone I am from Burlington VT USA. The only law the State of VT has is it illegal to have a suppressor (quite rude of us I know). However we are an odd state we are very liberal yet we love our guns. I know people with 50+ firearms. I have seen a lot on this issue over time now. Guns are an easy way of killing people yes and committing suicide. However I have seen guns stop criminals with their presence, I have seen guns provide food and enjoyment. It is a tool like anything else. I have seen people stabbed to death and blown up with homemade bombs. I remember reading about the 60’s in NYC. Guns were non-existent people were getting stabbed and bludgeoned quite a bit. So if guns of all types are taken away. There will be those in society still bent on killing each other. I am a police officer and one things I will admit is most gun enthusiasts are better trained than the average Police Officer. Most American law enforcement and military units rarely train. An enthusiast is just that they love it so they train all the time. What is needed is to take the emotion out of the issue and look at history. Germany, Russia and certain states in the US have stripped guns from the civilian populace. In those places crime has gone up. Places with relaxed to no gun laws crime is down. Now lets ask criminals about guns on citizens. They DO NOT like the idea. Look at what happened to the gang that tried to move into Rutland VT. The police were very proactive yet polite but what is not as well known is that the average citizen was equally proactive and polite. They basically said we will not be a place for criminals to prey upon. The gang left to go back to Springfield MA and NY where gun laws are relaxed despite going back to an area of major competition with rival gangs. So they would rather be fighting rival gangs which are numerous than operate in an area where they have 100% of the market share. The reason being is fear of people who are armed and will protect their city.
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I just came across this debate and although it is over 2 years old, it still deserves being set right.
Being Swiss citizen and having fought for Swiss gun rights for over 20 years, I’m qualified to give a correct answer about the state of gun rights in my country:
While I was also pissed about the decision to no longer hand out military pocket ammunition, it is NOT what the author of the article claims, i.e. it was not a disarmament of Swiss citizens.
It simply meant that the canned and sealed ammo that was normally handed out to every person doing military service and having a military gun – a rifle, i.e. typically the SIG 550, or a 9 mm handgun – is withheld, which is completely retarded, but not a huge issue.
It is indeed true that absolutely anyone may buy the ammo for either the rifle or the hand gun in any armory around the country, without licence or restriction. You can buy it in boxes to 1’000 rounds. I know, I do it often enough, including for my older rifle, the FAS ’57.
Anyone without a criminal file can buy hand guns, hunting rifles, assault rifles, BMG .50s etc.
We are allowed to keep as many guns as we can store in our homes. When we reach the status of “collector” (owning 5 or more guns) we can get permits to buy fully automatic guns, but that’s a bad idea. Full auto weapons bring no conceivable benefit and you get filed etc.
The left tried to pass an Initiative that would indeed have abolished our right to possess guns, with massive support from all the media except one (Weltwoche.ch). They lost the vote last spring by 57 to 43% of the vote. More importantly, 19 out of 26 cantons said NO and they’d have needed a majority of cantons to pass the constitutional change. Not going to happen.
According to the current law, while it is prohibited to carry guns, self-defense is still legal. We can use guns to defend our homes and if we do use a gun in legitimate self-defense, the fact that we carried it illegally is irrelevant.
This sums up the current status, which is better than some people thought, though definitely worse than it was until 1998.
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mass shootings in the U.S. always happen in Dis-Armed zones Too. murders here are usually result of drug deals, gang violence or domestics. Unlike England, home invasions and carjackings here are Rare. Switzerland is the last bastian of freedom in Europe. Switzerland has orders of magnitude less human rights violations than germany, france, england, russia, and an order of magnitude less crime. please don,T let those shitheads lecture you on human rights or crime.
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the founders of U.S. warned against a professional, standing army, saying such an army would be controlled by the wealthy in a country. while I have the up-most respect for our soldiers (including my own family), the majority of the wars recently have been more about protecting the bottom lines of the corporations, than defending freedom.
The swiss have a system (armed neutrality) which has worked for 500 years. switzerland had peace since Napoleon. no other cauntry in europe can say this. Certainly the swiss wasn’T going to trust France or England who gave away half of czechoslovakia. the scariest words of WW2 “finally — At Last we will know peace in our time”. Certainlly weren’T going to trust austria or denmark whose middle name os “surrender”
Please Don’T scrap a system which has proven to work for 500 years for systems of gov’t which have proven to lead to crime, war, loss of liberty, genocide, rape pillaging, total destruction, and finally bankrupsy.
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The beginning of the end of the Republic of the united States was 1913, the 17th amendment of the constitution, mandating that the senate would be directely. elected by the people of the states, where before the state governments were able to elect orrecall senaters at will if a senator didn’t vote the way a state government wanted. this was the beginning of the end of states rights. the end of a republic and the beginning of a democracy.
There is a big difference between a republic and a democracy. Republic is ruled by a contract (constitution) where all parties are represented regardless, without the fear of the tyranny of the majority.
A republic may last a Thousand years, most democracys only last a generation before turning into an oligarchy (ruled by a few), or a dictatorship. Only difference between communism and facism is tha path to power. Communism – path to power is through politics. Facism – path to power is through the corporations. Both are oligarchys which use political partys to control the election process through ballot access, the media, redisticting.Look at any map, especially an 80s map of the world. countries with the word “Democratic” in their titles AREN’T.
The real evil is concentration of power, weather it lies with governments, corporations, or churches.
Only thing the swiss need to do is Keep the system which worked for 500 years, Stay a Republic, Keep Power Locally, and Stop Apologizing
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The U.S. have two oligargys existing side byside one with communist leanings, and one with fascist leanings. They may argue at times but they will also deal with each other. Ross Perot, 1992 was the last time when the major media let a third party canadate into the debates or gave them any news. We have a Federal election commission Half democrats and half republicans, who control the election process. States also control the election process through ballot access.
If I may suggest, google up the congressional districts of some of the states.outside of a few social issues, they think alike- bushes, clintons, obamas, romneys, and China are more alike than they are different. there is no way the political parties were going to let outsiders like Howard Dean, Ron Paul, Pat Buchannon, Bob Barr become front runners. 2004 election, Both Kerry and W. attended Yale and were both members of skull and bones. Main difference between Obama and W. is that obama wanted universal healthcare, tax the rich more and leave us little people a few more bread crumbs.
Obama, W. and Romney are the same on gun control, immigration, invasion of privacy, imperialism abroad, borrowing from our grandchildren, ending civil liberties. They all Lie. While they may Argue, they are still all members og one big, fat, happy club.
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Switzerland stayed free because switzerland stayed a REPUBLIC and refused to become a democracy. elected officials will take away freedom just a quick as any king. Switzerland remained free because the tools of coersion remained in the homes of everyday citizens instead of centralized armorys controlled by kings, czars, governments, and corporations.
Those who would beat their guns into plows will end up plowing for someone else. Adolf Hitler used crime as an excuse to disarm an entire population, and we know what happened next.
“Most armed” and “Most free” go hand in hand.
Those who would give up freedom for security deserve niether and will get niether — Benjamin Franklin
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Case in Point. England, australia, south Africa, New York City, California, D.C. Massachusetts. — when everyday, honest people willingly gave up their means of protection for the promise of security, crime, lawlessness, home invasions went Up. States in the south and mid west which libralized gun laws, allowed lawbiding citizens to carry, real punishment for criminals, uncluding juveniles (they know right and wrong), instead of harrasing and demonizing honest citizens for daring to defend themselves and their families, have seen crime go Down. (FBI Stats).
The media is controlled by the rich who want to disarm the surfs. They never talk about the 2 million instances a year in which guns in america are sucessfully used in self defense, most of the time without firing a shot, and the fact that the criminals know that citizens are armed and allowed to defend themselves – as apposed to england where people aren’T even safe in their homes and cars.
remember that the U.S. is a country of 300 million people. Despite the high profile shootings (all in gun-free zones), americans are more likely to die by choking on their food, and much more likely to die in a car accident on the way to the work or school than die from a shooting at work or school.
1991 Lubys caferteria shooting, could have been avoided, honest person had her handgun but concealed carry was illagal and she would have gone to jail so she did like everyone else and hid under the table thinking it was just a robbery. she said she could have prevented it.
Texas later changed its gun laws to allow lawbiding citizens to carryviginia tech, like the vast majority of schools does Not allow weapons. Mass Shootings almost never occur where concealed carry is allowed.
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911 – how were 3 groups of a half dozen people able to kill 3500 people with nothing but box-cutters? I think I have the answer – before 911, the U.S. Govt like most govts around the world have conditioned every day people to cower down in the face of crime, “don’t resist your not a police officer” and those who did resist had as much to fear from govt prosecution as from the terrorists. This is what pacifism gets us.
Now that We everyday passangers on airplanes now Beat Up Terrorists to a Pulp and put down any hijackin attempts, a lot more lives are saved.
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[…] Ron Paul 2008 – The News Hiding The Truth YouTube – The Hardball Ron Paul Challenge Switzerland Strips All Citizens of Gun Rights. « Concealed Concealed story.cfm Covenant Truth.org Shas minister: Americans’ attitude to report […]
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The US Second Amendment was based on the Pennsylvania Constitution at the time which required men to join their local well regulated Militia and those weapons were kept in the local armory for use in training and in battle only.
The reason for this was that A) the US was never meant to have a standing military per Article One, Section 8, Line 12 and B ) the “right to keep and bear Arms” (not just guns) was only to be within the context of a well regulated Militia for the purpose of National Defense only.
In other words, the idea was to keep the power of violence out of the hands of a central government and within the hands of We the People. That way, “the government” could never be a physical threat to the People. The only threat “the government” could have would be legislative and we have the power of the vote to protect us from that.
The system of local well regulated Militias would keep the nation safe from external and internal threats. ACCESS to guns and other Arms would only be granted to those who are members of the well regulated Militia responsible for national security.
That was the point of the Second Amendment. Unfortunately, the “DC vs Heller” decision illegally rewrote the Constitution by altering the context of national defense to replace it with self-defense. So what we have now is an illegal unconstitutional standing military which is a threat to our internal security, our budget, and our Foreign Policy. And we have basically unregulated gun proliferation which is literally killing thousands of innocent people a year.
The Swiss are on the right track with this one. And we should get on that road too.
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bjdzyak, you are COMPLETELY wrong on this. It’s hair-raising that anyone still clings to such utter bullshit!
For starters, the US Constitution does not grant any rights, it tells government which PRE-EXISTING rights it may not infringe!
The 2nd Amendment lists one such right: The right of THE PEOPLE (the same people who have the right to free speech etc. not some special sub-group!) TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS!
There is NO conditional restriction. The preamble does not say “limited to militia service” or anything like it. It just gives the main reason why THE PEOPLE must never be disarmed: TO PREVENT TYRANNY.
And how would tyranny gain power? By force, obviously. The writers of the constitution had just fought a war against the most powerful empire of their days and it started because the empire wanted to confiscate private guns.
Hence they explain that the only armed branch of government – the militia – hat to be regulated, i.e. CONTROLLED, by having an armed population!
It doesn’t say “equip” the militia. It says REGULATE. When you regulate traffic, do you order everyone to own a car? No, you CONTROL how those who participate in traffic behave. To regulate the militia is the same – you make sure that you have control over what the militia does.
And as I said before, the Swiss Army ONLY withholds the pre-packaged ammo, it doesn’t prevent anyone from buying their own private ammo for their military or private guns.
You can privately buy any gun in use by the military, too and there’s even a special exception – normally, full-auto weapons that were transformed to semi-auto are not allowed for sale, except with a special permit (which any collector can get, cf. above), except for Swiss military rifles, which are legal as full-auto converted to semi-auto.
The Swiss are only “on the right track” by having rejected, via referendum, the attempt to limit our gun rights any further.
In fact, if the issue had been put up for a vote immediately, we’d never have seen any change to our former gun rights, which were canton-based and under which more than half the cantons allowed open or concealed gun carry – WITHOUT A PERMIT!
That used to be the case for most of our history – at least since 1848, so for 150 years – and our violent crime was so low as to be virtually non-existent!
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A little correction to my first post:
I said that the referendum against further victim disarmament (euphemistically called “gun control”) was won by 19 out of 26 cantons.
The correct number is 19 out of 23 cantons – I am in the habit of counting the 3 half-cantons (Basel city and country, Appenzell Inner and Outer, Ob- and Nidwalden).
So the opponents of gun rights won in only 4 cantons, yet would need more than half, even if they did one day win the popular vote, which they are very far from. The great benefits of a decent federal system!
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What they didnt mention was that only the “government issued militia ammo” is to be stored at a government facility. They can still purchase private ammo that fits their government issued weapons. Way to leave out an important fact
Concealed 
on 20 Jun 2007 at 7:59 am # Keith
My wife was at the receiving end of an armed home ivasion about 25 years ago. She was living about 5 miles south of the Swiss border.
The robbers were Italians and it is notable that the gang did not try going north of the border.
If Switzerland does go in for gun control, it will be interesting to see whether the subsequent and inevitable rise in armed crime on dis-armed victims is put down to the excess or lack of gun control.
more controvesially, I have not read Freedomnomics yet, but I wonder whether this has anything to do with women’s suffrage in Switzerland? which is quite a recent event.
Keith
on 20 Jun 2007 at 9:51 am # Keith
I should have added that the Italian speaking Swiss have very distinctive accents compared to the Italians accross the border.
It was not just Hitler who didn’t want to mess with the Swiss, the last dictator to try his luck with them was Napoleon.
Machiavelli, (in “the Prince”) in the mid 16th century noted that while Italy was divided into principalities variously under the control of the French, Spanish, Austrians, church and a few local princes, that the Swiss enjoyed greater freedom than any other people and he put this down to the ordinary people being better armed than anyone else.
In several centuries which have seen wars raging between the various principalities and kingdoms and countries which now make up France, Austria, Italy and Germany, how many of those conflicts spilled over into Switzerland, which has French, German, Italian and Romanche (Latin) speaking communities, living side by side?
Answer: none!
Practical reasons for keeping a military gun at home:
It is impossible for any group or foreign power to seize or bomb out the arsenals, the guns are right where they’re needed, in the hands of the citizen soldiers.
Particularly in the mountainous areas, it would be virtually impossible to eliminate opposition from the Swiss citizens.
Bear in mind that Finland is pretty flat and was increadibly poor in the 1930’s, but it took about twice as many soviet troops as there were Finnish population to force the Finns to sue for peace in the winter war. Switzerland is rich, well equipped and has the Alps, as well as lakes, forests and bogs to help the defending forces.
Having your service weapon hanging above the fireplace, you take extra care in cleaning and maintaining it; indeed, Swiss target rifles were finished in bright polished steel as blueing would cast a slur on the owner, suggesting that he was too lazy to keep it properly cleaned and oiled!
having ready access to your rifle you are intimately familliar with it, it is yours and you know exactly how it shoots, where to aim to hit a target etc. It is not like being handed a battered neglected armoury weapon in an emergency, that you have never even fired before.
Note that Switzerland does not have armed crime,
yes it has a somewhat higher murder rate than its neighbours, but this is more due to the Swiss tradition of 3 generations of a family living under the same roof.
The only masss public shooting I’m aware of there was in a council building which I believe was a dis-armed victim zone.
Ideological;
Yep
Keith
on 21 Jun 2007 at 12:34 pm # Patrick Joubert Conlon
What a shame but it was only a matter of time before the Swiss fell victim to new Brownshirts.
on 21 Jun 2007 at 11:15 pm # Ninth Stage
The site you link has a poll asking “Should Switzerland tighten its gun laws?” Two days ago “No” was winning at 75%, tonight it’s winning with 93% of the (unscientific) vote.